Summary: (will improve as time permits)
Looking at the changes in LDS D&C 5 and why it doesn’t bother me. Exposing the first part of LDS D&C 138.
Links:
Transcript:
00:00:02 word okay so this a couple days ago uh I
00:00:07 was studying scriptures um and just and
00:00:11 thinking in general okay and
00:00:15 I I’m
00:00:17 aware of this verse in the
00:00:20 DNC that has been changed that people
00:00:25 inside the restoration even people and
00:00:28 outside the restoration have issues with
00:00:31 okay so um Ben you want to
00:00:37 read so it’s in the current LDS DNC
00:00:42 5 it is the old eight I think it was DNC
00:00:47 or book of Commandments chapter or
00:00:50 section four if I remember incorrectly
00:00:54 um but you want to read this right
00:00:56 here okay behold I say unto you that my
00:00:59 my servant Martin has desired a witness
00:01:02 from my hand that my servant Joseph has
00:01:05 got the things of which he has testified
00:01:07 and born record that he has received me
00:01:10 and now behold this shall this shall you
00:01:13 say unto him I the Lord am God I Yahweh
00:01:17 am God and I have given these things
00:01:20 unto my servant Jo unto my servant
00:01:24 Joseph and I have commanded him that he
00:01:26 should stand as a witness of these
00:01:28 things nevertheless I have caused him
00:01:31 that he should enter into a covenant
00:01:33 with me that he should not show them
00:01:35 except I command him and he has no power
00:01:38 over them except I grant it unto him and
00:01:41 he has a gift to translate the book and
00:01:44 I have commanded him that he shall
00:01:46 pretend to no other gift for I will
00:01:48 grant him no other gift that’s a
00:01:52 straight that is a straight declarative
00:01:55 statement uh that he will be granted no
00:01:57 other gift right right right now here’s
00:02:01 the and that last part is no other gift
00:02:04 or he shall pretend no other gift is the
00:02:09 problem uh that comes up and uh well a
00:02:13 couple it’s that you shall pretended no
00:02:15 other gift for I will grant him no other
00:02:18 gift it’s the coupling of those two
00:02:19 statements that presents the problem oh
00:02:22 right right I yes uh good clarification
00:02:24 there Ben thank you so Zach you want to
00:02:28 read how this got changed into in the
00:02:32 1835 book of
00:02:34 Commandments and I don’t remember this
00:02:36 seual number off thought my head so I
00:02:38 don’t know that this is the book of
00:02:39 Commandments oh I mean yeah this is the
00:02:41 DNC sorry and coven yeah
00:02:44 1835 was uh Doctrine covenants sorry
00:02:47 about
00:02:50 that the whole verse right yeah yeah
00:02:53 let’s just read the whole verse I I know
00:02:55 the the problem Parts at the bottom but
00:02:57 we’ll just read the whole
00:02:58 verse behold I say unto you
00:03:02 that that as my servant Martin Harris
00:03:05 has desired a witness at my hand that
00:03:08 you my servant Joseph Smith Jr have got
00:03:11 the place of which you have
00:03:13 testified unborn record that you have
00:03:16 received
00:03:17 Me Now Behold this shall you say unto
00:03:21 him he he who spake unto you said unto
00:03:24 you I the Lord am
00:03:27 God and have given these to you my
00:03:30 servant Joseph Smith Jr and I commanded
00:03:34 you that you shall stand as a witness of
00:03:37 these things and I have caused you that
00:03:40 you should enter into a covenant with me
00:03:42 that you should should not show them
00:03:46 except to those to whom I command
00:03:49 you and you shall and you have no and
00:03:53 you have no power over them except I
00:03:54 grant it unto you and you have a gift to
00:03:58 translate the plates in this
00:04:00 and this is the first gift that I
00:04:01 bestowed upon you I have and I have
00:04:05 committed that you should pretend to no
00:04:08 other gift until my purpose is fulfilled
00:04:10 in this for I will grant unto you no
00:04:14 gift no other gift until it is finished
00:04:17 okay so the big issue I’ll just read
00:04:21 again and this is the first gift where I
00:04:25 mean that’s not there before as you can
00:04:26 see with the green it got added um just
00:04:30 so people can go here this is a a useful
00:04:34 site I I use it on occasion when I study
00:04:37 the DNC compared DNC and the screen is
00:04:40 showing this is a
00:04:41 change uh and this is the first gift
00:04:44 which I Yahweh bestow onto you and I
00:04:47 Yahweh commanded that you shall pretend
00:04:48 no other gift until my purpose is
00:04:51 fulfilled in this for I will grant unto
00:04:54 you no other gift until it is finished
00:04:57 so here is a modification
00:05:00 um that rather extensive modification of
00:05:04 those two St of those two
00:05:07 statements yes so
00:05:11 um I I’ve never really had a big issue
00:05:16 with this in that I’ve always
00:05:18 interpreted this that he had no other
00:05:21 gift until he finished the translation
00:05:24 so I I’ve never had a big issue with it
00:05:28 I
00:05:30 I always have felt that it would have
00:05:32 been better that they would add notes to
00:05:36 saywell here’s the updated Revelation
00:05:38 that came l or a revelation that came
00:05:42 later that changed it rather than just
00:05:45 changing the
00:05:46 Revelation now I’m not a history buff I
00:05:50 don’t know who did this change if it was
00:05:52 Joseph Smith or somebody else okay right
00:05:55 I I I just I don’t know and I’m not
00:05:58 worried enough to go do the research
00:06:01 okay um but this weekend as I was doing
00:06:05 some study I uh remembered some things
00:06:10 that Yeshua told the apostles in the New
00:06:12 Testament that goes along with what’s
00:06:15 happening what I see Happening Here
00:06:18 initially Joseph Smith was told to do
00:06:21 one thing and then later was told to do
00:06:23 something different okay and there I
00:06:26 wouldn’t call them contradictions and we
00:06:28 can get into that a little bit more but
00:06:30 let’s just go look at the verses that
00:06:32 bring out the
00:06:34 idea uh that I have that I believe goes
00:06:37 along with this this change of calling
00:06:42 and gifts that Joseph Smith had okay so
00:06:45 here’s Matthew
00:06:48 105
00:06:50 um Kesley you want to read this
00:06:56 one um these 12
00:07:00 these 12 Jesus sent forth and commanded
00:07:03 them saying go not into the way of the
00:07:05 Gentiles and into any city of the
00:07:08 Samaritans enter ye not okay so here’s a
00:07:11 commandment for Yeshua giving the
00:07:14 apostles to go teach people but not the
00:07:18 Gentiles or the Samaritans right but go
00:07:21 rather to the lost sheep of the House of
00:07:22 Israel yeah yeah um so go to the
00:07:26 Jews uh Samaritans
00:07:30 were
00:07:31 half um Joseph and half Jew right I mean
00:07:37 half they were half Joseph and half
00:07:40 Gentile sorry about that half yeah half
00:07:44 and half yeah they were like half and a
00:07:46 half um now here is
00:07:53 oh okay so here’s ler is a great creamer
00:07:56 for
00:07:57 coffee huh
00:08:00 half and half
00:08:06 okay oh boy okay so now here is Yeshua
00:08:11 talking to the same 12 well okay not not
00:08:15 exactly the same 12 right because Judas
00:08:18 is no longer with them right yeah he’s
00:08:20 hanging on a tree somewhere uh yeah
00:08:23 which actually just FYI for those who
00:08:25 don’t know is prescribed in Torah so
00:08:30 um it’s just Judas did it to himself but
00:08:33 anyways um so Christie you want to read
00:08:37 verse
00:08:42 15 you’re muted oh there we
00:08:45 go and he said unto them go ye unto all
00:08:49 the world and preach the gospel to Every
00:08:52 Creature oh wait a minute is that wait a
00:08:56 minute he’s telling us to go preach to
00:08:58 the dogs right
00:08:59 I’m just
00:09:01 kidding I mean he he did literally call
00:09:04 the Sid night woman a dog yeah I know so
00:09:09 FYI dogs and symbolism are followers um
00:09:12 and we are supposed to preach to the
00:09:13 followers right but uh maybe I should
00:09:17 have said we’re supposed to preach to
00:09:18 the ants right um no that’s just every
00:09:22 creature of the family of Adam okay yeah
00:09:25 preach the go go ye into all the world
00:09:28 and preach the gospel on Every Creature
00:09:29 but isn’t this a contradiction of his
00:09:31 earlier injunction oh yeah let’s let’s
00:09:33 let’s wait a minute let’s go double
00:09:34 check did did we read it
00:09:36 wrong so
00:09:38 Yeshua uh these 12 that Yeshua sent
00:09:41 forth and commanded them saying go not
00:09:45 unto the Gentiles and not into the city
00:09:50 of the
00:09:51 samarians oh yeah that that does seem
00:09:54 like a contradiction there but wait a
00:09:56 minute is it really though no a
00:10:02 clarification this is uh I see what
00:10:05 going on with these two verses is that
00:10:10 um Prophecy of the 70 weeks from Daniel
00:10:14 okay
00:10:15 yeah in that this statement in Mark is
00:10:19 after his death and
00:10:21 Resurrection um and that after his death
00:10:26 and Resurrection is when they were
00:10:28 supped suppos to go preach to the
00:10:30 Gentiles according to the prophecy
00:10:34 in and the thing is is that God does not
00:10:37 give a word to one of his prophets that
00:10:39 he does not
00:10:41 fulfill right now the thing that’s
00:10:44 interesting here in verse five Yeshua
00:10:47 did not say uh go do this now and later
00:10:51 I’ll tell you to do something else the
00:10:55 thing is it was always in the plan to go
00:10:58 to the Gentile
00:10:59 later
00:11:01 right
00:11:03 but here Yeshua did not expound that or
00:11:06 put that caveat in when he was telling
00:11:08 the 12 what to do right right oh now
00:11:13 let’s go back to
00:11:16 DNC the last part of
00:11:18 it
00:11:21 sense thesis that is what I see going on
00:11:25 here okay initially Yeshua
00:11:29 told Joseph Smith you are only to
00:11:34 translate that’s good later he
00:11:37 says PL to see go ahead Christie
00:11:42 orman’s writing yeah uh I think you
00:11:45 might want to mute Christy are you
00:11:47 talking to your your kids oh sorry I
00:11:52 thought that’s fine so here in the
00:11:56 update Joseph Smith is telling um or
00:11:59 Yeshua is telling Joseph Smith that
00:12:01 you’re going to do other things later
00:12:03 now it’s much it actually follow it
00:12:06 actually falls a lot in line with the
00:12:09 Lord’s instruction to
00:12:11 hyam uh in section 11 where he says
00:12:15 let’s go look at that real quick
00:12:22 yep and I would tend to agree with you
00:12:25 but let’s go look at it
00:12:27 um you want 1833 or you want the LDS
00:12:33 2013 2013 because I know what verse it
00:12:36 is yeah yeah yeah that’s fine well I’m
00:12:38 I’m more used to that uh versification
00:12:40 also yeah so let’s go to
00:12:43 21 11 and 21 it says seek not to declare
00:12:48 my word but first seek to obtain my word
00:12:51 then shall your tongue be
00:12:52 loosed then shall your tongue be
00:12:55 loosed after you now here you do this
00:12:59 first learn and then Proclaim right
00:13:03 right and so after they had after he had
00:13:07 translated The Book of Mormon had
00:13:09 obtained the
00:13:11 word then he can start doing other
00:13:13 things and then the apparatus had to be
00:13:16 put in place whereby they could spread
00:13:18 the word right um and I see that what’s
00:13:23 going on here now um I was not alive in
00:13:29 1833 believe it or not I I know I’m
00:13:32 missing my hair and I’m going all white
00:13:35 but I’m not that old
00:13:37 okay I’m older than you
00:13:39 are not by much though but I I think I
00:13:43 have more whites than you do
00:13:46 though that’s
00:13:48 possible maybe my white is masked by
00:13:51 maybe my white is masked by the fact
00:13:52 that it’s long uh that that could be
00:13:55 maybe um anyways um neither one of us
00:13:58 was was around in
00:14:00 1833 and I would have loved to have been
00:14:03 though
00:14:05 h i mixed feelings I think I’m here at
00:14:09 this time I mean I’m I’m I’m I’m content
00:14:12 to be where I am I’m just been really
00:14:15 would have been really interesting to be
00:14:16 alive back then sure well anyways so the
00:14:20 thing that I’m trying to get at I do not
00:14:22 know the standards back then of how to
00:14:26 modify documents when
00:14:29 appendages come into place right where I
00:14:35 when I make notes or or thoughts on
00:14:37 things I do glyphs right and you can
00:14:41 let’s um you can go look at one of my
00:14:44 recent post you can’t do that one
00:14:47 because well anyways because that one’s
00:14:49 just a whole bunch of
00:14:52 commentary
00:14:54 um oh that one you can’t this one I
00:14:57 think I have it
00:14:59 yeah so here right and where I’m putting
00:15:04 adding some extra little commentary next
00:15:06 to a little portion I put glyphs or
00:15:09 these are the square brackets
00:15:12 okay and and that’s somewhat of a modern
00:15:15 day standard okay now even when you go
00:15:18 look at the manuscripts for the Old
00:15:21 Testament and the New
00:15:24 Testament there’s uh research very good
00:15:27 scholar rese Arch that some of the
00:15:29 things that been put
00:15:31 into the scriptures as Canon were
00:15:34 actually thoughts from the scribes as
00:15:37 they were um um copying the transcripts
00:15:42 but because of the lack of standard at
00:15:45 some points with some of the scribes
00:15:48 they didn’t understand these were
00:15:50 thoughts of the Scribe and so they put
00:15:54 it in as scriptures also so this modern
00:15:59 day standard of doing glyphs or making
00:16:02 it obvious that you’re quoting even or
00:16:05 that you’re putting
00:16:07 thoughts how modern is that I don’t know
00:16:11 it’s actually it’s actually it’s
00:16:14 actually pretty modern though you see
00:16:16 evidence of that in Doctrine and
00:16:19 Covenant section
00:16:22 131 where they added something after the
00:16:25 fact and put a put a glyph on it
00:16:29 uh so it was starting to come into
00:16:32 effect probably in the
00:16:35 1840s
00:16:37 okay uh a 13 well that one 1870s I
00:16:42 should say yeah that one was public well
00:16:45 I know they claim
00:16:47 beforehand right uh
00:16:51 and I’d have to double check but I
00:16:54 think contain this passage it wouldn’t
00:16:57 183 wouldn’t yeah yeah so the first time
00:17:00 it showed up in the DNC is
00:17:02 1876 yeah so that yeah and I I do have
00:17:06 issues with this section but anyways
00:17:08 that’s another subject but my my my
00:17:11 point is is that’s the first uh that’s
00:17:14 the first example that I’ve seen where
00:17:18 thoughts have been added in the
00:17:19 scriptures where glyphs were used okay
00:17:25 that is all right and they do have
00:17:26 glyphs there like you’re mentioning
00:17:28 yeah so that’s the only in fact I think
00:17:32 that’s the only recorded example where
00:17:34 thoughts were added now in the Book of
00:17:37 Mormon they’re very clear about making
00:17:39 sure that you understand this is what I
00:17:41 have to say about this yeah um the
00:17:45 compilers
00:17:46 primarily um Mormon and Moroni right
00:17:50 they they were they they’re very make it
00:17:52 pretty clear they make it pretty clear
00:17:55 that when they’re adding their thoughts
00:17:57 but the
00:18:01 but the U but this is actually in the
00:18:08 scriptures the only place where this
00:18:10 actually occurs though it
00:18:13 is a section that I I find though though
00:18:18 I’m gonna say this uh it is a no it was
00:18:22 a gnome practice of the scribes to
00:18:24 inject their thoughts uh into the Old
00:18:27 Testament yes yeah there is some of that
00:18:31 um so uh I’m more aware of New Testament
00:18:35 than Old Testament but anyways
00:18:38 um so but the point is
00:18:42 is uh the so that so that’s why that’s
00:18:47 why we have to be careful let the Bible
00:18:49 interpret itself interpret passages that
00:18:51 aren’t clear because oftentimes the
00:18:53 passages that aren’t clear are those who
00:18:56 are are those which are thoughts human
00:18:59 and that could be um I do know interpret
00:19:02 those which are not clear in the in the
00:19:05 uh in the uh light of those which are I
00:19:10 one that I can think of in the Old
00:19:11 Testament where I think it’s very
00:19:13 obvious that they updated it where they
00:19:16 changed the name of a city to be the
00:19:20 modern name of the last time that that
00:19:22 one scribe transcribed it instead of
00:19:25 what it was called initially right right
00:19:28 that’s one example and I I don’t think
00:19:30 there was any Mal intent there right
00:19:32 they were just trying it easier to
00:19:34 understand a lot of
00:19:36 times a lot of times
00:19:39 uh a lot of times these little additions
00:19:42 that we do to the word of God are not
00:19:45 done from Mal
00:19:48 intent but oftentimes they end up
00:19:50 muddying the water for those who do not
00:19:52 wish to have faith in the word of God
00:19:55 right right and sometimes people will
00:19:56 try to use these things
00:19:59 not even knowing how it’s in other
00:20:00 places the same basic idea yeah but but
00:20:04 this is why we don’t judge by the intent
00:20:08 we judge by the
00:20:09 action uh right right judgments are done
00:20:12 by the actions yes and and their effects
00:20:16 right right but I I here though in in
00:20:21 this Dean or book of Commandments DNC
00:20:24 example even just the one from the Old
00:20:25 Testament and this from the New
00:20:27 Testament
00:20:28 I I think these are um they’re all
00:20:31 interconnected in what was going on with
00:20:34 these with the DNC FL book of
00:20:37 Commandments
00:20:39 section um just like scribes put things
00:20:43 in the past
00:20:45 um I would say in a lot of cases just to
00:20:48 help people understand what’s going on
00:20:51 um right I see that’s what’s going on
00:20:54 here in addition to what we saw in
00:20:56 Matthew 10 and Mark
00:20:59 16 man change and it goes according to
00:21:02 prophecy of Daniel’s 70 weeks right and
00:21:07 and just like this change here goes in
00:21:09 line with the teaching of the Lord to
00:21:12 his servant hyram Smith yeah yes that we
00:21:15 looked oh I think I changed the section
00:21:17 but anyways yeah um as in because Jose
00:21:22 Smith needed to learn first before he
00:21:24 went out to be do he needed to he needed
00:21:26 to bring he needed to bring forth the
00:21:28 word literally obtain the word yeah yeah
00:21:33 yeah um and so and so they and
00:21:40 then because the thing is is that the
00:21:43 whole outgrowth of the church was
00:21:47 not actually another
00:21:51 gift it was an extension of the same
00:21:57 gift yeah because now you’ve po now I’ve
00:22:00 given this to you now you’re to SH now
00:22:03 you’re to share
00:22:05 it yeah yeah it was an extension of the
00:22:08 same gift and if you can’t see that it’s
00:22:11 because you don’t want to yeah it’s
00:22:14 because you’re looking for problems and
00:22:17 you have a different standard for what
00:22:18 you read in the New Testament than you
00:22:21 do in the
00:22:23 DNC right so yeah so the point is is
00:22:26 that these things that that the
00:22:29 Lord that the Lord
00:22:33 actually he he he will instruct us
00:22:37 sufficient to get us to do those things
00:22:40 which are
00:22:43 needful yeah and he doesn’t always give
00:22:45 us the
00:22:47 whole fact I would I’d say most of the
00:22:49 time he doesn’t give us the whole
00:22:50 picture when he tells us to do one part
00:22:53 right had Moses seen had Moses seen all
00:22:58 have Moses seen all of God’s creation
00:23:00 when he when he went up to the mountain
00:23:02 to receive the
00:23:05 law uh I don’t remember the timing when
00:23:08 he saw everything so I don’t know off
00:23:09 top of my head at some point he did I
00:23:12 don’t it’s given the fact that it talks
00:23:15 about the 40 days and the 40 nights it
00:23:18 refers to the 40 day to the long time up
00:23:21 in the mountain for Moses there I would
00:23:25 assume I assume that it’s refer to the
00:23:28 same time Moses is receiving the law and
00:23:32 the vision of that constitutes
00:23:37 Genesis yeah okay so I think that’s good
00:23:40 on on that let’s pause for a
00:23:46 minute so next we thought we’d talk
00:23:49 about um the supposed DNC section 138 oh
00:23:54 and actually while we’re prepping
00:23:56 actually let me share this
00:24:00 um that
00:24:03 section was not published until
00:24:07 1981 so we go back to compare DNC
00:24:12 138 so they don’t have the 1981 Edition
00:24:16 but it’s pretty much the same as the
00:24:17 2013 but we can go back to
00:24:20 1921 it wasn’t published in the
00:24:23 DNC even though it was received prior to
00:24:25 the 1921 and Publishing well
00:24:29 supposedly received um right because I I
00:24:33 actually I don’t believe it’s authentic
00:24:35 but I I I you may be right it’s h but
00:24:40 still it’s a it’s a great it’s a great
00:24:43 uh Testament to the imaginative
00:24:46 Ingenuity of uh the of the leadership of
00:24:50 the Mormon
00:24:51 Church yeah and considering it wasn’t
00:24:54 published it makes me wonder if this was
00:24:57 done retract actively right but I don’t
00:24:59 know I haven’t looked at the history I I
00:25:00 don’t believe it either way so it
00:25:02 doesn’t matter right well yeah number
00:25:04 one number one he he has to cite
00:25:09 scripture out of context in order to
00:25:10 even relate what he’s saying to what’s
00:25:13 in the scripture um so anyway let’s keep
00:25:17 let’s go on here it’s
00:25:21 um the wonderful marvelous imagination
00:25:24 of Joseph F Smith or somebody around him
00:25:27 okay
00:25:28 okay you want to start it on the 3 of
00:25:31 October in the year
00:25:33 1918 I sat in my room pondering over the
00:25:37 scriptures that means he was asleep over
00:25:40 them and reflecting upon that might be
00:25:44 the case in here but in general
00:25:48 typically it means you’re thinking about
00:25:50 the scriptures
00:25:52 but the case that’s what it’s supposed
00:25:55 to mean I’m I’m I’m seen as most of this
00:26:00 has a dreamlike quality and he does talk
00:26:02 about have entering into kind of a
00:26:04 dreamlike state a little later on so I I
00:26:07 I will add something real quick uh James
00:26:09 Z talage around the same time with this
00:26:13 dream state he was uh testing out
00:26:16 marijuana and and its effects on him so
00:26:20 who knows what Joseph fith was doing
00:26:22 right so and reflecting upon the great
00:26:26 sacrifice that was made by the Son of
00:26:28 God for the Redemption of the world and
00:26:30 a great wonderful love made manifest by
00:26:32 the father and the son and the coming of
00:26:34 the Redeemer into the world that through
00:26:36 his atonement and by obedience to the
00:26:38 principles of the Gospel mankind might
00:26:40 be
00:26:41 saved while I was thus engaged my mind
00:26:44 reverted so real quick I I’ll say
00:26:48 um we’re all we’re saved by one thing
00:26:52 the mercy of Yeshua okay um and
00:26:59 at the danger of me getting
00:27:03 twisted uh it doesn’t take obedience
00:27:06 okay yeah the to be saved in the kingdom
00:27:10 is because you have accepted Yeshua as
00:27:14 your Messiah if after you’re in the
00:27:18 Kingdom you want to be rewarded by your
00:27:20 works you then keep his law and that’s
00:27:24 where the three degrees of that’s where
00:27:26 the that’s where the principle of
00:27:28 obedience comes into effect
00:27:31 right after salvation reward and we can
00:27:34 see this in the Bible um all over the
00:27:37 place but one that’s probably a good one
00:27:40 to just show this quickly is the parable
00:27:43 of the serwer right there’s three groups
00:27:46 that get into the kingdom and the lowest
00:27:50 one they they don’t believe in the
00:27:54 law right right but uh they do believe
00:27:58 in Yeshua as the promised Messiah so I I
00:28:01 though let’s clarify just a little bit
00:28:03 they initially believed in the law and
00:28:06 then the crows came and I is it crows
00:28:09 but anyways the birds came and ate those
00:28:10 seeds away so they didn’t believe in the
00:28:12 law anymore but they still believed in
00:28:13 yosua being the promised Messiah so
00:28:16 anyways while I was thus engaged my mind
00:28:20 reverted to the writings of the Apostle
00:28:22 Peter to the Primitive
00:28:25 Saints as opposed to
00:28:28 technologically advanced Saints I well I
00:28:31 I think that mainly does uh with uh the
00:28:34 ancient Saints
00:28:37 yeah but yeah yeah I I don’t like the
00:28:41 use of that word primitive uh I don’t
00:28:45 unless you’re dealing with people who
00:28:47 just have no concept of society um well
00:28:53 and I’ll give them a little slack here
00:28:54 maybe the word was used a little
00:28:56 different back then but whatever right I
00:28:59 don’t know scattered abroad throughout
00:29:00 ptis galatia capadia and other parts of
00:29:04 Asia where the gospel had been preached
00:29:07 after the crucifixion of the Lord love
00:29:09 your way I opened the Bible and read the
00:29:12 third and fourth chapters of the first
00:29:14 Epistle of Peter and as I read I was
00:29:17 greatly
00:29:18 impressed he was greatly impressed more
00:29:22 than I had ever be been before with the
00:29:25 following passages for Christ also hath
00:29:29 once suffered for
00:29:31 sins uh the just for the unjust that he
00:29:35 might bring us to God being put to death
00:29:36 in the flesh but quickened by the Spirit
00:29:39 by which also he went and preached unto
00:29:41 the spirits in prison which sometime
00:29:43 were disobedient when Once the
00:29:45 longsuffering of God waited in the days
00:29:47 of Noah while the ark was a preparing
00:29:50 wherein few that is eight Souls were
00:29:52 saved by water so this is the first yeah
00:29:56 yeah go sorry go go and finish so this
00:29:58 is the first scriptural citation that he
00:30:00 uses and it’s really nice of him to
00:30:01 provide us with chapter and verse
00:30:03 because now we can go and we can check
00:30:05 and see if this actually is even related
00:30:08 to what we are going to find out to what
00:30:11 he’s going to be talking about here um
00:30:14 so I personally believe it’s not but um
00:30:18 let’s get into that so let’s first
00:30:22 interestingly enough there is a jst for
00:30:25 First Peter 3 18 through 20 and guess
00:30:29 what he’s not using it
00:30:33 oh I guess they don’t take that stuff
00:30:35 too seriously but well obviously the
00:30:38 inspired Bible was only in the inspired
00:30:40 version was only inspired for the
00:30:43 [Laughter]
00:30:45 rlds uh well um so just on that little
00:30:50 Point Brigham Young hated the
00:30:52 jst and he chastised people who were
00:30:56 using it while he was alive and so they
00:30:59 stopped using it while briam young was
00:31:02 alive and soon after briam young was
00:31:04 murdered by his uh by a wife and a
00:31:07 daughter he they started publishing it
00:31:10 and using it into the church again right
00:31:13 so anyways um let’s go see what that
00:31:16 says in the
00:31:17 jst there’s a big old there’s some big
00:31:20 old excisions here interesting I didn’t
00:31:23 know that’s how Brigham Young died wow
00:31:26 oh yeah yeah so I I I I talk about it in
00:31:29 my king Brigham post um if you want to
00:31:31 go read that yeah King Brigham was a
00:31:35 bastard and he died the death of a
00:31:36 bastard yeah he he did um I feel like I
00:31:40 read that post but I must not have
00:31:41 finished it oh maybe you didn’t remember
00:31:44 there there’s a a lot in there it’s hard
00:31:46 to remember everything the first time
00:31:50 right I I I was just I I just kind of
00:31:53 threw a jab in there because uh the jst
00:31:56 is important
00:31:57 and here is this
00:31:59 leader quoting something that he should
00:32:02 know better that is not how it actually
00:32:05 was right right but anyways so here here
00:32:09 we are vers oh Christy wants to say
00:32:11 something go ahead Christie oh just
00:32:12 question and I’ll read that post but
00:32:14 were was the wife mad at him like well I
00:32:17 can imagine the wives didn’t like him
00:32:19 too much but do you know any do they
00:32:20 have anything recorded as to why they
00:32:22 killed him um well I think there’s just
00:32:27 speculation why and not actually
00:32:30 recorded all that’s left all that’s left
00:32:32 is speculation at this
00:32:34 point yeah but it’s pretty good
00:32:37 speculation and on this point they do
00:32:41 have some
00:32:42 doctor reports where they try to
00:32:45 downplay it with the members but when a
00:32:47 doctor actually reads it it goes along
00:32:49 with poison and
00:32:52 not uh other natural causes like they
00:32:55 try to claim and bite church right um
00:33:01 yeah yeah okay thank you for that yeah
00:33:05 so I mean the main thing is is this is
00:33:09 the end of Brigham Young is just part of
00:33:12 the sorted sorted history of
00:33:15 polygamy uh well as I bring out in King
00:33:19 Brigham uh the noites could never get
00:33:23 rid of polygamy completely and nor can
00:33:26 the bamit
00:33:27 it Stills them even
00:33:29 today yep so let’s get into versus into
00:33:34 the jst here all right uh so Christie
00:33:37 you want to read uh at least
00:33:41 18
00:33:44 yes for Christ
00:33:47 also should I read where it’s crossed
00:33:49 out no so okay so just clarification
00:33:52 cross out is where Joseph Smith removed
00:33:56 and the Bold are were Joseph Smith
00:33:58 restored
00:34:00 okay
00:34:03 okay all right um for Christ also once
00:34:07 suffered for sins the just for the
00:34:10 unjust being put to death in the flesh
00:34:13 but quickened by the spirit that he
00:34:15 might bring us to
00:34:19 God so um I I don’t think there’s too
00:34:22 much to say there but uh it does say
00:34:25 that he was sinless right the just
00:34:27 sinless for the unjust those who sinned
00:34:31 he put to death but then came back alive
00:34:33 the quickened is being brought back to
00:34:35 life that and the reason he did that is
00:34:38 so that we can return to Elohim
00:34:43 right um Kesley you want to read
00:34:48 19
00:34:52 yeah uh for which cause also he went and
00:34:56 preached preached unto the spirits in
00:34:58 prison okay so the jst there is not too
00:35:02 big right that’s not a big deal but I do
00:35:06 think it’ll be interesting to go to
00:35:08 Bible Hub on this verse
00:35:14 okay oh it’s right there uh that was
00:35:18 verse
00:35:20 19 skip one over here yeah yeah so uh
00:35:26 also went
00:35:27 preached to the spirits in prison so the
00:35:32 prison is the interesting word in my
00:35:35 mind
00:35:37 okay uh a guarding a guard a watch so
00:35:43 the way that I take this
00:35:45 okay uh I at yeshua’s death there were
00:35:49 two thieves right one that was condemned
00:35:54 and one who started believing he
00:35:58 believed there and was going to go to
00:36:00 with him Yeshua in
00:36:03 Paradise not
00:36:05 prison okay also we learn how those in
00:36:10 and especially with Elma 40 right that
00:36:15 those who guard Torah go to
00:36:23 paradise I believe a better translation
00:36:26 here is he went and preached or
00:36:29 proclaimed let’s go look at preach real
00:36:32 quick before I start um opening my big
00:36:34 mouth of course I’m already doing that
00:36:37 um but so the word behind preach is
00:36:40 Proclaim yeah it
00:36:43 is I believe what this is actually
00:36:46 saying he went and proclaimed to the
00:36:49 spirits in paradise Who guarded
00:36:54 Torah that salvation is
00:36:57 here yeah I kept Torah I
00:37:01 saved all of technically and technically
00:37:04 until Resurrection
00:37:07 begins uh the spirit is in a very
00:37:09 limited State yeah it is uh and so even
00:37:15 so death itself is a
00:37:17 prison right right uh and so I I can see
00:37:21 how prison can be fine but when I look
00:37:24 at the the Greek word behind it it’s
00:37:28 about uh and so this could be taken a
00:37:31 couple ways those of were being guarded
00:37:34 which could be prison or those who were
00:37:37 guarding Torah yeah so I could see it
00:37:41 going either way but either way a death
00:37:44 is a sort of prison either way right
00:37:47 right um and I think that plays into the
00:37:51 Joseph Smith translation of the next
00:37:54 verse S you want to read that one okay
00:37:58 bring it
00:38:10 up I can’t see it you can’t oh yeah
00:38:14 sorry I I see it on my
00:38:16 screen well that’s beautiful you can
00:38:19 read then sorry about that I I don’t
00:38:22 know what I was thinking there you go
00:38:24 okay it says here some of whom were
00:38:27 disobedient in the days of Noah okay so
00:38:30 I I want to bring out some that he went
00:38:33 to were disobedient not all were
00:38:36 disobedient which in my mind goes along
00:38:39 with what I’m bringing out here
00:38:42 because um those who went to Paradise
00:38:46 are those of who will receive the
00:38:48 celestial glory and the
00:38:51 testal glory as some that he went to
00:38:56 were disobedient now if he went to hell
00:38:59 or outer Darkness more correctly right
00:39:02 it would have been
00:39:03 all of whom were
00:39:06 disobedient so but anyways some of whom
00:39:10 were disobedient in the days of Noah
00:39:11 while the longsuffering of God
00:39:13 waited while the ark Was preparing
00:39:15 wherein few that is eight Souls were
00:39:17 saved by
00:39:19 water so I know a lot of people oh Wella
00:39:23 the fact there were eight Souls on the
00:39:25 ark eight years
00:39:27 old yeah yeah yeah that goes back to JSC
00:39:30 Genesis 17 ronai 8 and
00:39:35 dc74 anyways well eight being eight
00:39:38 being New Beginnings uh New Creation new
00:39:41 heaven new Earth yeah yeah uh and also
00:39:44 has to do um with the resurrection also
00:39:47 which is going on with this context here
00:39:49 right right New Beginning yeah um but so
00:39:56 I
00:39:57 I I know a lot of people in the eldis
00:40:00 church will go off and say that Yesa
00:40:02 went and preached to people in in Hell
00:40:05 or better put outer Darkness here as in
00:40:08 to give justifications for baptisms for
00:40:10 the dead right but as we’ve gone over at
00:40:13 other times and I can put the recordings
00:40:17 um links to the recordings in in the
00:40:19 notes that the Book of Mormon and bible
00:40:22 teach against that on a regular basis
00:40:25 right
00:40:26 well there’s no labor that can be
00:40:28 performed right right and repentance is
00:40:31 a labor slash work to do um and FYI so
00:40:36 is baptism for those are well you can’t
00:40:40 since baptism is a witness of a covenant
00:40:42 already made there’s no means short of
00:40:44 necromancy whereby you could determine
00:40:46 that they could be baptized right right
00:40:49 uh
00:40:50 because has been springing oh I moved it
00:40:55 too much
00:40:58 um for you to properly do baptisms for
00:41:02 the dead if it was a real thing which
00:41:04 it’s not you’d have to know that that
00:41:07 person had made that Covenant in the
00:41:09 first place before you could actually do
00:41:11 it for them right and that would take
00:41:14 talking to the dead and that’s that’s
00:41:17 against
00:41:20 Torah so um that’s my quick take on
00:41:25 first I I mean 1 Peter
00:41:28 318 through 20 and hopefully that makes
00:41:31 some sense in why I’m saying what I’m
00:41:34 saying we can go look at the rest or a
00:41:37 little more of that um supposed section
00:41:40 if you
00:41:41 want yeah
00:41:43 sure share
00:41:48 screen uh so I think we’re on this one
00:41:51 so yeah go ahead read verse 10 for this
00:41:55 cause was the go preached unto them that
00:41:57 are dead that they might be judged
00:41:59 according to men in the flesh but live
00:42:01 to Elohim in the spirit so now this one
00:42:04 this one is obviously taken out of
00:42:06 context oh yeah yeah um so I can go get
00:42:09 there you can lead while I’m getting
00:42:11 there if you
00:42:12 want what’s up you can lead a little bit
00:42:15 or we can just wait yeah so ver First
00:42:17 Peter chapter 4 verse 6 is if you take a
00:42:20 look throughout the rest of the chapter
00:42:22 you’ll clearly see that what he’s
00:42:24 talking about the death he’s talking
00:42:25 about is spiritual death the rescueing
00:42:27 of man from spiritual death um but in
00:42:30 this one verse alone apparently he’s
00:42:33 talking about the literal physical death
00:42:35 um right right so just FYI to go along
00:42:38 with what Ben is saying in the Hebrew
00:42:40 mindset when you sin you die because the
00:42:46 consequences of sinning is death and uh
00:42:51 you can see this even in um a famous
00:42:54 Jewish movie right Fiddler on the Roof
00:42:58 where when one of his daughters married
00:43:02 the Gentile um I forget the nationality
00:43:05 russan not only married the Gentile but
00:43:07 married him in a Christian Church you’re
00:43:09 right and and the Christian church he
00:43:11 the father saw that as breaking Torah so
00:43:15 much that he considered his daughter
00:43:17 dead right now that is that going to
00:43:22 that degree is not in Torah that is a
00:43:24 false tradition of the Jews
00:43:26 because Yeshua would bring out how we
00:43:28 need to keep working with them and
00:43:30 trying to get convert them back right
00:43:33 the interesting there are some
00:43:34 interesting things in that movie is uh
00:43:37 how he attempts to get around the fact
00:43:41 that he feels like he has to do
00:43:43 that he talks to her through his other
00:43:47 daughter
00:43:49 yeah yeah yeah I I remember at the
00:43:54 end yeah uh he’s an interesting
00:43:57 character he loves to say he’s quoting
00:43:59 the good book and it’s just made up
00:44:02 stuff you’re right anyways it’s a fun
00:44:06 movie Somewhere it says something about
00:44:10 a
00:44:13 chicken anyways all right let’s go back
00:44:16 to here um do do you have a particular
00:44:19 spot you want to start with or should we
00:44:21 just start to the
00:44:23 uh I think you I think You’ really need
00:44:26 that those first five verses to really
00:44:28 put six into context here oh sure sure
00:44:31 that’s fine let’s do that then yeah so
00:44:34 I’m good with just the Hebrew uh idiom
00:44:36 but it is good to show up more even in
00:44:38 the context so let right I I believe
00:44:41 that context is King in all of these
00:44:43 things so you have to if you even if you
00:44:48 can appreciate the idiom of
00:44:52 um
00:44:54 uh both are important right yeah that
00:44:59 both you need to see how it helps to see
00:45:02 how it plays out sure in what he’s
00:45:05 actually writing yeah yeah that’s fine
00:45:08 um as opposed to when it’s isolated by
00:45:10 itself and you can put any kind of
00:45:13 damned literal interpretation literalist
00:45:15 interpretation on it you want to all
00:45:17 right okay so we’ll start with one Zach
00:45:19 you want to read verse
00:45:24 one Oris
00:45:27 for as much
00:45:29 then as Christ has has suffered for us
00:45:32 in the flesh arm yourselves likewise
00:45:34 with the same mind for he that has wait
00:45:38 I just want to bring something up so as
00:45:40 much as Yeshua suffered for us because
00:45:43 of our sins arm yourselves with the same
00:45:46 mind and if we go back to lectures on
00:45:49 faith
00:45:51 five uh that Associates mine with the
00:45:53 Holy Spirit and [ ] 00:45:57 72 sorry teach him how to be one yeah 00:46:01 yeah and keep Torah his mind his plan 00:46:04 his purpose right yeah to be one in the 00:46:06 mind and will of God that we are we that 00:46:09 we are perfect in our expression of it 00:46:12 now uh Moroni 00:46:15 72 applies the Holy Spirit to I think 00:46:19 it’s the will there not mind but let’s 00:46:21 go double check it’s hard to have 00:46:24 everything memorized um 00:46:26 holy will right yep um same thing just a 00:46:31 different name mind and will of God it’s 00:46:34 the mind of God is T so okay so okay but 00:46:40 because of our sins he 00:46:43 suffered uh In the Flesh for he that 00:46:46 suffered In the Flesh hath ceased from 00:46:48 sin this is what we are to do to be in 00:46:51 the same mind because you see 00:46:54 that you see that from the colon there 00:46:57 that connects the two ideas as opposed 00:46:59 to uh somewhat breaking them up like a 00:47:02 semicolon would this is a colon so it 00:47:06 connects right and so if we start 00:47:09 keeping the Mind Torah we will stop 00:47:12 sinning right we’ll cease from sin okay 00:47:15 verse 00:47:17 two uh Kesley you want verse 00:47:22 two 00:47:24 yep 00:47:27 that he no longer should live the 00:47:31 rest whoa of his time in the flesh to 00:47:34 the lust of men but to the will of God 00:47:38 okay so oh so that’s pretty clear stop 00:47:41 sinning 00:47:42 right that’s a pretty good summary right 00:47:46 and this one’s behind a semicolon so 00:47:49 this is a different but related idea to 00:47:52 what to what preceded so that oh you 00:47:55 know what I was just thinking we should 00:47:57 look at this in the jst uh we should 00:47:59 have done that earlier sorry guys um but 00:48:03 this is but this is the uh but but 00:48:05 that’s basically what’s going on with 00:48:07 with with that that is actually a 00:48:09 different but related idea 00:48:12 um because it’s different in that 00:48:18 uh he’s going he’s no longer talking 00:48:21 necessarily about the sess about 00:48:24 necessarily the sess of sin uh so much 00:48:28 in the body as in the 00:48:31 mind right right um so uh the jsts let’s 00:48:37 just see you have suffered you should 00:48:40 you have ceased from your sin you no 00:48:45 longer 00:48:46 uh the rest of your time in your flesh 00:48:50 you so endur to the end right you should 00:48:53 live to the lust of men but to the will 00:48:56 of God so stop sinning do go according 00:48:59 to God’s Torah right go according to the 00:49:02 will yeah go according to Tor same basic 00:49:05 idea just worded a little different 00:49:06 right yep and if anything it probably 00:49:09 makes it a little clearer but yeah in 00:49:13 some ways it does make that clearer yeah 00:49:16 uh okay um Christie you want to do verse 00:49:23 three yes 00:49:29 for the time past of our 00:49:34 life okay that sound right for the time 00:49:37 past of life oh okay of Life they 00:49:41 suffice to have wrought the will of the 00:49:45 Gentiles when walked in lasciviousness 00:49:50 lusts excess of wine reings banquetings 00:49:55 and abominable idolatries so basically 00:49:59 uh for those who are familiar with the 00:50:01 Book of Mormon this is another way of 00:50:03 saying uh the natural man right right 00:50:06 the time of life is sufficient for us to 00:50:08 get past these things is what he’s 00:50:10 saying yeah uh yeah getting past the 00:50:14 sins right and this is where um second 00:50:18 Nephi 2 Lehi brings out how uh everyone 00:50:22 has uh will live long enough 00:50:26 to get the ability to 00:50:28 repent right uh same basic idea 00:50:33 yep um let’s see Zach you want to do 00:50:39 five thought it was four oh are we in 00:50:41 four sorry I I need to go back to school 00:50:43 to learn how to count um Zach you want 00:50:46 to do four wherein they speak evil of 00:50:49 you thinking it’s strange that you run 00:50:53 not with them to 00:50:56 yeah saying 00:50:58 excessive Riot yeah it’s basically 00:51:02 saying because now you have become a new 00:51:04 creature and you’re keeping yahweh’s 00:51:06 ways and not doing the carnal things of 00:51:09 the flesh they speak evil of you right 00:51:13 right uh y verse five you want to read 00:51:18 verse five Ben I’ll I’ll go ahead and 00:51:21 read verse five and verse six okay so 00:51:24 who shall give a account to him that is 00:51:26 ready who shall give account to him that 00:51:28 is ready to judge the quick and dead 00:51:30 because of this or because 00:51:35 uh this is because of the stuff that we 00:51:38 just talked about right yeah because of 00:51:40 this which is the same meaning as for 00:51:42 this cause 00:51:44 um it’s because of this is the gospel 00:51:50 preached to them who are dead this pulls 00:51:55 it right back to the Hebrew idiom the Jo 00:51:58 the jst translation pulls it right back 00:52:01 into the Hebrew idiom that the dead are 00:52:04 those and who are the dead it’s those 00:52:07 who are taking part in the uh are the 00:52:11 sin lasciviousness lusts excessive wine 00:52:15 rings banquetings and abominable 00:52:18 idolatries those are the dead yeah 00:52:22 because those are sins because if you’re 00:52:24 uh doing excess of wine you’re a 00:52:27 drunkard right 00:52:29 and that’s commanded against in Torah 00:52:33 it’s not commanded against not to have 00:52:35 wine in fact if anything we’re commanded 00:52:37 to have it or maybe not commanded but 00:52:40 it’s preferred to have wine for the 00:52:43 sacrament right right right so that that 00:52:47 they might be judged according to men in 00:52:49 the flesh but live in the spirit 00:52:52 according to the will of Y so when we 00:52:57 what this is telling 00:52:59 us is so when we live Torah we’re living 00:53:03 in the spirit well yeah what’s another 00:53:05 word for Spirit 00:53:08 Behavior right when when we’re doing 00:53:11 keeping the Commandments we’re doing the 00:53:13 behavior that Yahweh wants us to do and 00:53:16 and so that 00:53:19 judge when you live in the spirit you 00:53:22 will not be 00:53:24 judged 00:53:25 well um will not be Jud will not be 00:53:28 found wrongful you won’t have a wrongful 00:53:30 judgment because you won’t be found you 00:53:33 will not be F you will be innocent you 00:53:35 are innocent when you 00:53:36 live because I mean um the righteous 00:53:40 will look forward to Judgment Day 00:53:43 because they’ll be found under the 00:53:45 covering of Yeshua right right which 00:53:48 will be glorious um where those who are 00:53:51 not they they’ll try to hide under a 00:53:54 rock but and here’s another interest not 00:53:57 related but an interesting verse another 00:53:59 interesting correction is in verse eight 00:54:02 above all things have fervent charity 00:54:04 among yourselves charity 00:54:07 sadaka um 00:54:09 righteousness righteous Commandments for 00:54:13 charity 00:54:15 prevent a multitude of sins yeah uh 00:54:19 keeping the Commandments prevents you 00:54:21 from sinning right it tells you what 00:54:23 charity is with the 00:54:26 jst with the or the inspired translation 00:54:30 however you want to call it it tells you 00:54:32 what charity is yeah it’s keeping the 00:54:35 law yeah you know it’s amazing how 00:54:40 people uh how many of these mystery 00:54:46 teachers they want to say that they can 00:54:48 know whether a person’s been saved by 00:54:50 how they preach charity and they have 00:54:53 and you ask them what charity is and 00:54:55 they clearly have no effing 00:54:59 clue uh right in fact as we talked about 00:55:02 before how are you gonna be able to tell 00:55:05 a true teacher by how they teach charity 00:55:08 so as we’ve talked about before uh if 00:55:11 you go look at the Hebrew root uh under 00:55:13 charity it means keeping the 00:55:16 Commandments and when you look at 00:55:21 uhor righteous and just action and and 00:55:24 benevolent to those who cannot take care 00:55:26 of themselves correct uh which that and 00:55:30 even that last part is according to 00:55:31 Torah right um but anyways um and you 00:55:36 can get that from commandment five and 00:55:39 commandment 10 but anyways um in in 00:55:43 [ ] 7 where it’s listing the
00:55:45 attributes of Charity it’s listing Torah
00:55:50 Commandments um and then
00:55:54 in Galatians 5 related to that where
00:55:57 it’s talking about the fruits of the
00:55:58 spirit it’s listing Torah Commandments
00:56:02 um well I
00:56:07 what it’s listing Godly
00:56:10 attributes that we are commanded to
00:56:12 attain to in Torah that’s a better way
00:56:15 of saying it um so yes
00:56:19 yeah and the the whole because the whole
00:56:22 thing
00:56:23 is is Torah was a gift to
00:56:26 us it was a gift to us to show us the
00:56:29 mind and will that needs to be in
00:56:32 us if we are to
00:56:34 inherit all that the father
00:56:38 has this has to be the mind all that is
00:56:41 in us and we can see that in DNC 76
00:56:45 because those who are Sanctified are
00:56:48 those who are keeping the law and
00:56:49 they’re they are the ones that get
00:56:50 everything the father has to give the
00:56:53 ones that receed the celestial Glory
00:56:56 and sanctification means that you’re
00:56:58 keeping the law right so yeah anyways um
00:57:03 the law you need the law not not only
00:57:06 that but sanctification means that
00:57:08 you’re keeping the law and the one life
00:57:09 that you have to live yeah yeah um but
00:57:13 back to um first Peter 4 uh it is the
00:57:18 context before the verse is uh people
00:57:24 alive who are sinning
00:57:27 right and then they’re referred to as
00:57:30 who are dead he just didn’t go talk
00:57:33 about a new group without any preference
00:57:36 before it just changing you don’t just
00:57:40 change groups of people without
00:57:42 explaining what’s going on okay
00:57:46 right you see this is what the church is
00:57:48 famous for they take a verse of
00:57:53 scripture basically rip out the verses
00:57:55 in front and behind and say
00:57:58 see here it
00:58:04 is yeah all right well anyways uh it’s
00:58:08 pretty here is that they they may be
00:58:11 judged according to men in the flesh as
00:58:13 in so they can now start keeping Torah
00:58:15 while they’re alive
00:58:17 right so and that they may live in Torah
00:58:23 according to the Torah of Elohim I know
00:58:26 I said that twice but
00:58:28 anyways well this is why I say they’re
00:58:31 living in the spirit because they’re
00:58:33 keeping Torah right right because
00:58:36 they’re keeping God’s Behavior but
00:58:38 anyways we’ve gone over that enough
00:58:39 Let’s uh unless we want to look at more
00:58:41 of that chapter I don’t think we need to
00:58:43 but I’m happy to if anybody I I think we
00:58:46 I think we’re good on that man all right
00:58:48 so let’s go back to uh the supposed DNC
00:58:53 138
00:58:57 go so I just read verse
00:59:01 10 um Kesley you want to read verse
00:59:07 11 okay let’s
00:59:11 see as I pondered over these things
00:59:14 which are written the eyes of my
00:59:16 understanding were opened and the spirit
00:59:18 of the Lord rested upon me and I saw the
00:59:20 hosts of the Dead both small and great
00:59:26 okay I I without seeing what else is
00:59:29 saying along with that I I don’t have
00:59:30 too much to say on that unless you do
00:59:32 well it’s h the the yeah there’s here’s
00:59:37 uh here’s using uh Vision language from
00:59:40 the scriptures who add legitimacy so
00:59:43 let’s move on right right right uh and I
00:59:46 I know he’s twisting things but without
00:59:48 additional context going on there’s I
00:59:51 don’t think there’s let’s go on let’s go
00:59:53 on so Zack read
00:59:57 12 and they were gathered together in
00:59:59 one place in an innumerable company of
01:00:02 the spirits of the just who have been
01:00:05 faithful in the testimony of Jesus while
01:00:08 he lived in
01:00:10 mortality okay so that part seems fine
01:00:13 because it is the just who were faithful
01:00:19 to I think we need a few more details
01:00:22 before we can
01:00:23 start
01:00:25 really okay all right so we’ll keep
01:00:27 reading but I’ll just finish my quick
01:00:29 statement and kept the law right because
01:00:32 right to be just is to enact the law and
01:00:36 keep the law that’s how you’re just
01:00:38 right well the the the main problem that
01:00:40 I have with this is that does he know
01:00:42 what the testimony of being what it
01:00:44 means to be faithful in the testimony of
01:00:47 Yeshua
01:00:49 um I I I know I’m biased here but I do
01:00:53 not believe he knows that but but
01:00:54 anyways I I because if it’s what modern
01:00:58 leaders of the church uh claim it to be
01:01:02 where you just blindly stand in and say
01:01:05 I know because of a feeling I had sorry
01:01:09 that’s not faithful to the testimony of
01:01:11 Yeshua you have to receive the testimony
01:01:13 of Yeshua you have to have you have you
01:01:18 have to have uh you have to have
01:01:20 experienced him in some
01:01:22 way right testimony of Yeshua is found
01:01:25 in your
01:01:27 justification yeah
01:01:29 um and F and further sanctification
01:01:33 afterwards this is the testimony of
01:01:35 Yeshua so that’s the one problem that’s
01:01:37 the one potential problem that I have
01:01:39 with that verse is does he know what it
01:01:41 means to be faithful to the testimony of
01:01:44 Yeshua well no because his church
01:01:46 changes the Commandments on a regular
01:01:48 basis and if we go by first Nephi
01:01:50 37 uh Yahweh will provide a way and that
01:01:54 is is not by changing them okay CU in
01:01:57 other places in the scriptures we’re
01:01:59 told that he doesn’t turn to the left or
01:02:02 to the right right but right so like I
01:02:05 said that was my lone actual potential
01:02:09 problem no no I I I yeah okay so moving
01:02:13 on uh I’ll read 13 and who had offered
01:02:17 sacrifice in the similitude of the great
01:02:20 sacrifice of the son of Elohim and had
01:02:23 suffered tribulation
01:02:24 in their redeemer’s name so
01:02:29 I
01:02:31 so I’m not sure what to say too much on
01:02:34 that I mean that might be pointing a
01:02:37 little bit to Lexus on fa six a little
01:02:39 bit but I I I just don’t know what to
01:02:42 say too much I think that this is uh
01:02:46 what I see
01:02:47 here
01:02:49 um is somebody who doesn’t understand
01:02:55 uh he’s showing that he doesn’t
01:02:57 understand anything that’s what he’s
01:03:00 showing that’s probably why I I don’t
01:03:02 really have much to say because it’s
01:03:04 just kind of out in the it’s it’s out
01:03:07 there in the open he doesn’t we do not
01:03:09 we do not we will not offer sacrifice in
01:03:12 the similitude of the great sacrifice of
01:03:14 the Son of God uh yeah so um so along
01:03:19 those lines uh this is somewhat eluding
01:03:22 may be a vague reference to blood Aton
01:03:25 yeah oh I could see that Poss and and if
01:03:28 that is the case then this man is
01:03:30 burning in hell as we speak well I think
01:03:33 there’s plenty evidence for that without
01:03:36 this but uh if they’re trying to
01:03:39 do but so this is who had offered
01:03:43 sacrifice in the similitude of the great
01:03:45 sacrifice the great son so uh this could
01:03:48 be going along with Elma 34 which is
01:03:51 going on how law Moses points to to
01:03:56 right the great and sacrifice but this
01:03:59 was something that they did in the past
01:04:02 and they had offered not that they
01:04:04 continually are so yeah that could be it
01:04:07 could be a reference to the law of Mo to
01:04:10 those who had honored it could be a
01:04:12 reference to those who have been
01:04:13 faithful in the um faithful before the
01:04:15 ministry of Christ if that’s right but
01:04:19 it’s not and if that’s the case it’s not
01:04:21 that it’s not that bad right right um
01:04:24 and but this is not all of them because
01:04:26 Adam didn’t do law Moses that started
01:04:28 with Moses because the Israelites re
01:04:31 broke their Covenant and it was because
01:04:34 the isra yeah because the Israelites
01:04:36 were poo poo heads um is that the
01:04:39 technical way of saying that
01:04:45 yes yeah well it was a punishment to
01:04:47 remind them where to look for their
01:04:49 salvation which even with that they
01:04:51 still perverted that right as talked
01:04:53 about even in Elma I mean mosiah 13 you
01:04:57 can see it through the Old and New
01:04:58 Testament but anyways yes like I said
01:05:00 they were poooo heads like still
01:05:02 couldn’t figure
01:05:05 it okay they suffered tribulation in
01:05:07 their redeemer’s name okay so if given
01:05:10 that it’s talking about the law of Moses
01:05:12 even then he’s not really he’s not
01:05:15 really extending these just people out
01:05:18 far enough there’s there’s still there’s
01:05:20 still small problems there but it’s not
01:05:22 major yeah I I’m not really sure what
01:05:25 the point of why he said that to be
01:05:26 honest but anyways it’s he’s trying to
01:05:30 he’s attempting to show off the vastness
01:05:31 of his knowledge as oppos whereas what
01:05:34 he’s really showing is the vastness of
01:05:36 his ignorance um you want to read 14
01:05:40 yeah sure all these had Departed the
01:05:42 Mortal life firm in the hope of a
01:05:43 glorious Resurrection this is true
01:05:46 through the grace of God the father and
01:05:47 his only begotten son Yeshua
01:05:50 hamashiach there I I beheld that they
01:05:53 were filled with joy and gladness and
01:05:55 were rejoicing together because the day
01:05:57 of their Deliverance was at hand for
01:06:00 sure and as we went over uh first Peter
01:06:04 3 I kind of bring out how that’s what
01:06:07 it’s saying he he went to these
01:06:11 righteous um that were in in Paradise um
01:06:15 but anyways so what it looks like that
01:06:17 there may be parts of this that were
01:06:19 actually true and there may be parts of
01:06:23 this that were that he made up later um
01:06:27 I I I don’t believe he had this Vision
01:06:30 I’ll just leave it to that yeah yeah I
01:06:33 mean there’s but there’s there’s enough
01:06:35 in here that there’s enough in here that
01:06:37 can actually that can Ambiguously be
01:06:39 seen is true that it’s a really good
01:06:42 deception actually well that’s how Satan
01:06:45 does things he twists uh truth and
01:06:48 wickedness together right so right and
01:06:50 we’re rejoicing together because
01:06:53 the assembled awaiting the Advent of the
01:06:55 Son of God into the spirit world to
01:06:57 declare their Redemption from the bands
01:06:59 of
01:07:01 death so that’s also kind of goes along
01:07:03 with what I see in First Peter 3 y um
01:07:07 I’m GNA pause for a
01:07:09 minute
Seeking YHWH 