Here are the verses in Alma 13 people like to use, but they never like to talk about the word FOREKNOWLEDGE and what it means.
Alma 13:3 And this is the manner after which they were ordained—being called and prepared from the foundation of the world according to the FOREKNOWLEDGE of God, on account of their exceeding faith and good works; in the first place being left to choose good or evil; therefore they having chosen good, and exercising exceedingly great faith, are called with a holy calling, yea, with that holy calling which was prepared with, and according to, a preparatory redemption for such.
Alma 13:7 This high priesthood being after the order of his Son, which order was from the foundation of the world; or in other words, being without beginning of days or end of years, being prepared from eternity to all eternity, according to his FOREKNOWLEDGE of all things—
Here is what Noah Webster dictionary says the definition of foreknowledge is:
FOREKNOWL’EDGE, noun Knowledge of a thing before it happens; prescience.
If I foreknew, foreknowledge had no influence on their fault.
In preparing for reading Alma 13 again for this discussion, I read Alma 12 to get more context. And here are some scriptures from it that I believe apply.
Alma 12:8 And Zeezrom began to inquire of them diligently, that he might know more concerning the kingdom of God. And he said unto Alma: What does this mean which Amulek hath spoken concerning the resurrection of the dead, that all shall rise from the dead, both the just and the unjust, and are brought to stand before God to be judged according to their works?
Alma 12:18 Then, I say unto you, they shall be as though there had been no redemption made; for they cannot be redeemed according to God’s justice; and they cannot die, seeing there is no more corruption.
Alma 12:20 But there was one Antionah, who was a chief ruler among them, came forth and said unto him: What is this that thou hast said, that man should rise from the dead and be changed from this mortal to an immortal state, that the soul can never die?
Alma 12: 24 And we see that death comes upon mankind, yea, the death which has been spoken of by Amulek, which is the temporal death; nevertheless there was a space granted unto man in which he might repent; therefore this life became a probationary state; a time to prepare to meet God; a time to prepare for that endless state which has been spoken of by us, which is after the resurrection of the dead.
Alma 12: 32 Therefore God gave unto them commandments, after having made known unto them the plan of redemption, that they should not do evil, the penalty thereof being a second death, which was an everlasting death as to things pertaining unto righteousness; for on such the plan of redemption could have no power, for the works of justice could not be destroyed, according to the supreme goodness of God.
To get more context for Alma 12, I reread Alma 11, and here are verses that are relevant.
Alma 11:41 Therefore the wicked remain as though there had been no redemption made, except it be the loosing of the bands of death; for behold, the day cometh that all shall rise from the dead and stand before God, and be judged according to their works.
Alma 11:42 Now, there is a death which is called a temporal death; and the death of Christ shall loose the bands of this temporal death, that all shall be raised from this temporal death.
Alma 11:43 The spirit and the body shall be reunited again in its perfect form; both limb and joint shall be restored to its proper frame, even as we now are at this time; and we shall be brought to stand before God, knowing even as we know now, and have a bright recollection of all our guilt.
Alma 11:44 Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but every thing shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.
Alma 11:45 Now, behold, I have spoken unto you concerning the death of the mortal body, and also concerning the resurrection of the mortal body. I say unto you that this mortal body is raised to an immortal body, that is from death, even from the first death unto life, THAT THEY CAN DIE NO MORE; their spirits uniting with their bodies, NEVER TO BE DIVIDED; thus the whole becoming spiritual and immortal, that they can no more see corruption.
Here is a blog post I did about Alma 11:45 a while back ago regarding what corruption means, and I believe it relates to what we are talking about. Alma 11:45 Corruption
Now lets look at Alma 40 some.
Alma 40:4 Behold, there is a time appointed that all shall come forth from the dead. Now when THIS time cometh no one knows; but God knoweth THE time which is appointed.
Alma 40:5 Now, whether there shall be one time, or a second time, or a third time, that men shall come forth from the dead, it mattereth not; for God knoweth all these things; and it sufficeth me to know that this is the case—that there is a time appointed that all shall rise from the dead.
Alma 40:6 Now there must needs be a space BETWIXT THE TIME OF DEATH AND THE TIME OF THE RESURRECTION.
Alma 40:7 And now I would inquire what becometh of the souls of men FROM THIS TIME OF DEATH TO THE TIME APPOINTED FOR THE RESURRECTION?
Here is more context for 4 & 5
Alma 40:8 Now whether there is more than one time appointed for men to rise it mattereth not; FOR ALL DO NOT DIE AT ONCE, and this mattereth not; all is as one day with God, and time only is measured unto men.
Alma 40:9 Therefore, there is a time appointed unto men that they shall rise from the dead; and there is a space BETWEEN THE TIME OF DEATH AND THE RESSURECTION. And now, concerning this space of time, what becometh of the souls of men is the thing which I have inquired diligently of the Lord to know; and this is the thing of which I do know.
Alma 40:10 And when the time cometh when ALL shall rise, then shall they know that God knoweth all the times which are appointed unto man.
Alma 40:11 Now, concerning the state of the soul BETWEEN DEATH AND THE RESURRECTION—Behold, it has been made known unto me by an angel, that the spirits of all men, as soon as they are departed from this mortal body, yea, the spirits of all men, whether they be good or evil, are taken home to that God who gave them life.
Alma 40:12 And THEN shall it come to pass, that the spirits of those who are righteous are received into a state of happiness, which is called paradise, a state of rest, a state of peace, where they shall rest from all their troubles and from all care, and sorrow.
Alma 40:13 And THEN shall it come to pass, that the spirits of the wicked, yea, who are evil—for behold, they have no part nor portion of the Spirit of the Lord; for behold, they chose evil works rather than good; therefore the spirit of the devil did enter into them, and take possession of their house—and these shall be cast out into outer darkness; there shall be weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth, and this because of their own iniquity, being led captive by the will of the devil.
Alma 40:14 Now this is the state of the souls of the wicked, yea, in darkness, and a state of awful, fearful looking for the fiery indignation of the wrath of God upon them; THUS THEY REMAIN IN THIS STATE, as well as the righteous in paradise, UNTIL THE TIME OF THEIR RESURRECTION.
Alma 40:18 Behold, I say unto you, Nay; but it meaneth the reuniting of the soul with the body, of those from the days of Adam down to the resurrection of Christ.
Alma 40:19 Now, whether the souls and the bodies of those of whom has been spoken shall all be reunited at once, the wicked as well as the righteous, I do not say; let it suffice, that I say that they all come forth; or in other words, their resurrection cometh to pass before the resurrection of those who die after the resurrection of Christ.
Alma 40:21 But whether it be at his resurrection or after, I do not say; but this much I say, that there is a space BETWEEN DEATH AND RESURRECTION OF THE BODY, and a state of the soul in happiness or in misery until the time which is appointed of God that the dead shall come forth, and be reunited, both soul and body, and be brought to stand before God, and be judged according to their works.
Alma 40:23 The soul shall be restored to the body, and the body to the soul; yea, and every limb and joint shall be restored to its body; yea, even a hair of the head shall not be lost; but all things shall be restored to their proper and perfect frame.
Also here is an interesting phrase from 3 Nephi 28:35, it’s pretty strong along with the idea this is the life to prepare to meet God.
3 Nephi 28: 35 And it would be better for them if they had not been born. For do ye suppose that ye can get rid of the justice of an offended God, who hath been trampled under feet of men, that thereby salvation might come?
This is just a start. But I see all these as strong witness against MMP. If you get another chance later, why would it be said better to have not been born?
I Ann absolutely sure younare reading my thoughts and listening to my conversations. I have been saying this for a few months now.
One cannot misunderstand these chapters. Well done
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I left a reply… why has it not appeared? Was it an unacceptable response?
When teaching young children, one gives them nursery rhymes. That is what the Garden of Eden story is in the scriptures. It does not make it false, it just veils the sacred portions from young foolish children that can not bear more meatier doctrines of the kingdom.
What you have quoted above is true, and MMP is a doctrine of the devil, when one teaches that you have Multiple Probations here in this realm or Estate. However, that is but a nursery rhyme as to the whole story of creation. If you have ever been endowed, and have been privy to comprehend the allegory that is behind the absolute complete story within the Endowment, wherein the Mysteries of Godliness has been revealed unto you by the Holy Spirit, then you would know who and what the Elect of G_d are! From whence they come! And why what you are saying here is like two believers or saints agreeing that their is but one G_d, as the Father and the Son are one in the same! For I can prove it to you by the Bible and the Book of Mormon. However, those who have left the nursery know that they are only one in purpose and literally two separate Beings, know the truth.
And the truth will set you free! Free from what? From the dogma and doctrines or beliefs of men. For the scales shall fall off from off your eyes and you shall see eye to eye with G_d, having a perfect brightness of hope, and shall be seen even as you are, for their will be no deception upon you.
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This is the only comment I see from you and I just saw notification of it. Maybe there was a connection problem, I’ve experienced that myself at times.
Garden of Eden story is a big thing in the Book of Mormon. The prophets teach doctrines from it all the time in the Book of Mormon. All scriptures have deeper meaning in them waiting for the diligent to seek them out. I have been endowed in an LDS Temple. We may have a different idea of what the mysteries are and what the LDS Temple Endowment teaches. As the LDS church no longer talks about the LDS endowment anymore, and does not want it to be talked about even in the Celestial Room now, despite the fact early church history shows it was talked about openly outside of the temple, everyone is going to have a different opinion of what it means. One point the LDS Endowment teaches is assentation or in other words conversing with the Lord through the veil in this life, aka the Second Comforter experience. You are right Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ are separate individuals, and Lectures on Faith shows this. LoF 5:Question 3: How many personages are there in the Godhead? Two: the Father and the Son. (5:1) This is different than what the LDS church teaches.
Bellow are some scriptures I believe support what I am saying.
Those who don’t seek the presence of the Lord will be lead into temptations.
3 Nephi 18:25 And ye see that I have commanded that none of you should go away, but rather HAVE COMMANDED THAT YE SHOULD COME UNTO ME, THAT YE MIGHT FEEL AND SEE; even so shall ye do unto the world; and WHOSOEVER BREAKETH THIS COMMANDMENT SUFFERETH HIMSELF TO BE LED INTO TEMPTATION.
After saying this, Jesus turns to the 12.
3 Nephi 18:26 And now it came to pass that when Jesus had spoken these words, he turned his eyes again upon the disciples whom he had chosen, and said unto them:
It appears there are character limits to this blogs post, so I will come strait to the point.
The Initiatory Room has Booths that represent the different Estates one must pass through and the required Ordinances in each Estate.
The Creation Room give one the allegory of ones personal creation, as they pass through the Estates and the different type of Beings that they will be among. It is not a history of the creation of the world!
The Garden Room relates the allegory of how the first man came into this creation, and shows the paths we must one day walk.
The World Room teaches us of ones past and present Estate and the first two Estate (1st & 2nd Estate) Priesthoods, Covenants and allegorical Penalty for failing a particular Estate, with ones Name being a Keyword, the Sign + Penalty of that Estate, and Token that can be given.
The Terrestrial Room teaches us of ones future or past and present Estate depending upon where you actual are upon the Path of Eternal Progression and the next two Estate (3rd & 4th Estate) Priesthoods, Covenants and allegorical Penalty for failing a particular Estate, with ones Name being a Keyword, the Sign + Penalty of that Estate, and Token that can be given. You are then commanded to Awake and Arise.
Much more can be said about the allegory, for this is but a taste of what most do not see, hear, perceive, embrace, and are healed.
I don’t see that in the LDS Temple ceremony. Do you have scriptures that teach that? In addition although I do like the temple, we need to keep in mind the LDS church has changed the ceremony multiple times without receiving revelation from God.
If is something that one must be given sight to see, hears to here. Yes, the Hebrew reveals it, and even the Sermon on the Mound teach it for those whom it has been given. This blog has not the space nor the capacity to communicate such doctrines and knowledge.
Considering no one can teach it with the context of the scriptures, I’ve look at many scriptures people claim that teach it, and yet ignore all the simple and plain ones against it, I honestly believe they are looking beyond the mark, and the fact you just say it’s there, shows me you can’t expound the scriptures that teach it with the context that they have and you are being blown back and forth with every wind of doctrine. Many tell me it is there, but can’t show it in the scriptures.
MMP, as people have popularized it, is definitely of the devil. It undercuts our sense of urgency and assumes that all those who attain a telestial and a terrestrial glory will automatically be ushered into another mortality immediately without even having to make a choice in the matter. Those assumptions are false and lead people to take lightly the terrific opportunity presented to them here and now. Justification later is a very painful and risky option. Sanctification later is not a given. Now is our day to repent and come to know God.
If there are additional mortalities, we need not concern ourselves with them at present. For the only way into telestial glory is through centuries of torture in hell. And then 90% of those who inherit telestial glory ripen into the next crop of weak demons over a period of eons during which they are cut off from any portion of God’s presence. And the time spent wallowing in telestial conditions during those eons is a good definition for eternal misery.
Meanwhile, some percentage of those who attain terrestrial glory also ripen into fallen angels, one of whom will be a Satan in some future eternity. So the only safe place to be is in the celestial glory; which glory requires that we completely consecrate ourselves to Jesus right here and now.