Mormon Stories – Dr Michael Coe – An Outsider’s View of Book of Mormon Archaeology

Here are thoughts from Part 1 of Mormon Stories – Dr Michael Coe – An Outsider’s View of Book of Mormon Archaeology Podcast.

Part 1

00:14:00 BYU archaeology focus on Mesoamerica. The LDS church and BYU, ran by the LDS church, fights against the Heartland model.

00:14:45 Mayan area, that is Mesoamerica. This is what the LDS church pushes and I agree with him, it is not where the BoM happened.

00:15:45 Mayan is BoM archaeology. This is what the LDS church teaches, but it is not what Joseph Smith taught. D&C has sections were the Lord sent missionaries to the Heartland area, aka primarily East of the Mississippi River. Letter IIV is a good example of this. Also if you look at old BoM maps during JS time they are of Eastern USA. BoM talks of animals that can not be found in Mesoamerica, but can be found in the Heartland model. Specific animals are used for the sacrifices and the law does not allow for substitutes.

00:17:40 Mesoamerica is his focus. And I agree that is not were the BoM happened. There are quotes from Joseph Smith when talking about the BoM says this country. Now country is a very specific word and does not mean continent as the LDS church tries to change it to. While Joseph Smith was a live the USA government was doing much to make the American Indians look like less than human. Even the Smithsonian Insatute was hiding evidence that the American Indians had an advanced cavillations. To the point of having assembly lines for production of products to sell. Governments still do this, make someone look like less than human than others don’t have a problem killing them off.

00:18:40 Nephi landed in Florida, and the Melkites did land in Zarahemla in the North close to the Mississippi if I remember correctly. Wayne May believes he found the temple of Zarahemla using technology and I believe him.  In 3 Nephi it is mentioned that Zarahemla was sunk during the sign of Christ’s death. Oh don’t know why, maybe because it is one of the areas the Melkites first landed, Niagara Falls is interesting. Niagara means narrow neck, and there is a strip of land that is the correct width as the BoM describes it, 3 days travel if I remember correctly. Look up the meaning of the word, and look at the land strip near it. Also there are still Indians there who ancestors helped with the Constitution of the United States. And many of their stories parallel the BoM.

00:18:50 There is a word translated in the BoM in Ether, dessert which means honey bee. That is the literal translation of dessert in Egypt, which is the area the Jaradites came from. Which was not known during Joseph Smith’s time.

00:19:00 Jaridites, this brings to mind the Michigan tables all over the state, and 10s of thousands of them. They have pictures of elephants on them. I’m not kidding you, elephants. Also their skeletons have been found and they would be want most would call giants. Not kidding you, in eastern USA. Oh that also brings to mind that when some soil has been tested, they found high consecrations of marrow. Marrow is found in bones. Another note, Mayne May has found sites ancient sites by using directions in the BoM.

00:19:15 BoM does say they had a highly civilized people. I believe that also. Sorry I forget the name of it, but there is a mound from the Indians that have an Jerusalem oil lamp, along with the campus and square sign on it. Most archaeologist will show this mound upside down now a days because they don’t want to admit that the American Indians could have something so advanced. In addition there are other mounds that are aligned with the Sun and the Moon and other stars during the Equinoxes, along with some other high math that I don’t remember off the top of my head, some match what is on the great pyramid of Giza. There have been found very old mines, pre modern settlers, for silver and gold. There are evidence for the animals mentioned in the heartland model. I agree there is none of those is Mesoamerica, but Joseph Smith never said it was down there. An overzeous missionary did that, because he saw the distain people had for the American Indians and he wanted to find something others would like to get them to believe in the BoM.

00:20:00 FYI Lamanites has two meanings in the BoM, those who were descendants of Laman and those who did not follow the Lord. The last is not always the case, in fact there are times when the Lamanites were the righteous ones, for example Samuel the Lamanite. But this is a good rule of thumb. At the end of the BoM the Nephites and the Lamanites were both wicked.

00:20:30 Some American Indians believe in the BoM, and some of the stories parallel the BoM.

00:20:40 the color of skin has to do with ones demenar and not their actual skin color. This is a Hebrewism, just like the English language has isms that don’t make sense unless you grew up with them, so do other languages. This is a good video regarding that, and it has examples from the Bible and BoM.

00:20:50 Wayne May believes he has found the temple of Zarahemla and I believe him. He has soundar, I don’t remember the exact word sorry, pictures of it. And has someone picked out to excavate it if he gets enough money to do just that. Joseph Smith never said it was in central America. You may have heard of Zelph. While on Zions march Joseph Smith found a skeleton and said it was Zelph a descendant of the BoM people. I don’t remember were exactly, but it was in the Heartland area.

00:21:00 this just popped into my head. FYI there have been found gold plates with ancient records around Jerusalem. Which was not the case Joseph Smith’s day.

00:21:20 I agree with him BYU thinks it’s Mesoamerica, and they use faulty tactics to get people to believe in their dogma. FAIR is very bad at that in general. I know Bill Reed talked about this once.

00:22:23 Huge Nibley is a famous LDS/BYU religious scholar. And he believed the BoM happened in the heartland area. I agree with him on that. His writings are a bit dry and hard to follow, and I believe much of what he says goes with many call the Polar Configuration, which is a whole other topic. One little thing if you want you ought to look into the Electronic Universe Model, I believe this much more than the Standard Model. The Standard Model is the typical science taught in school. FYI when the charge radius of the proton was found at CERN, it showed that the Stand Model prediction of it was false, and the standard model does not work with the size it is at. Also Joseph Smith has a statement that the sun is powered by an external source, it’s in the Book of Abraham, which is another subject, I believe it, back on point the Electronic Universe Model says the same thing. A big part of the model is plasma the 4th state of matter that most don’t know about.

00:22:50 gold does not rust, probably one of the reasons BoM was on gold as it was barried in the ground as Isaiah prophecied.

00:23:00 I agree if the BoM is historical, which I believe it is, you should be able to find things because of it, and as I have mentioned already Wayne May has done just exactly that.

00:23:45 Iron has been found in the heartland area. Including ancient mines, as I have already mentioned. In Ohio I believe it is, there are museums of iron armory from before the colonists, breast plates, swords, helmets, and for the forearms. And they do have rust on them. But he is correct not found in Mesoamerica which is were the LDS church pushes, but are found in heartland which is were Joseph Smith said it happened.

00:24:50 Ancient wheat has been found in the heartland area. I think Amberli Nelson brings that up in one of these videos, along with the animals. My favorite one is regarding the Holy Days as I do my best to practice them also, which is another story. But the BoM was given to Joseph Smith on the feast of Trumpets.

00:25:20 His whole premises is Mesoamerica, which I agree the BoM did not happen there. Now do I do believe that after Christ’s resurrection He visited the people of the BoM and as stated in the BoM he went to visit other people/sheep also. For example Mexico and Peru has legends of a White God. But that is not the BoM those are other people.

00:28:00 sea not related to how he is using sea, but lets look at how the Hebrews use the word sea. One example is the Dead sea, would you or I call that a sea, no, us Westerners would not call that a sea if we named it. We would name it the Dead Lake, like the Great Salt Lake or the Finger Lakers. But this book is based on Hebrew, it was written in reformed Egyptian, which FYI has been found in the Heartland area and so has Hebrew and even the 10 commandments and talk of Moses, Mormon or Moroni states if they could have written in Hebrew there would have been no mistakes, but they did not have the space to write using Hebrew. In Egyptian there are words that can be express with one picture, that is not the case with Hebrew. You are familiar with compression on the computer zip files, they take up less space, even pictures are compressed. And there are picture compression were you lose information and formats that you don’t called lossless. Main point is how Hebrews use the word sea, it’s not like us Westerners. Hebrews use sea as we use lake.

00:28:10 Here is a good video on the chronology of the BoM in the heartland the dates match up. This next video brings up the land Bountiful the place where Nephi built the boat. It has what was needed and it has lots of plant life to live off of.

00:28:26 Nephites left Jeruslem at 600 BC Jaradites was back during the time of the Tower of Babel which I don’t know when off the top of my head. So if anything he doesn’t know BoM chronology as the BoM declares it. In addition I don’t believe in Mesoamerica as he keeps bringing up, but that is what the LDS church pushes everywhere.

00:29:16 You will find things related to the middle east in the heartland model, What is now Eastern USA.

00:29:59 Dates from archaeologist in the heartland area are very close to the dates in the BoM.

00:30:49 BoM mentions some weather aspects, one being cold, which happens in Eastern USA, especially in the northern part, and whirlwinds. Neither of these happens in Mesoamerica.

00:31:30 I do know that silk was brought from China to Latin America, not related to the BoM.

00:32:00 Not stated in the BoM, but I do believe it is Biblical, I can provide references if you want, I believe it and follow it for my Sabbath, but there is proof that Nephites, those who lived in the heartland, used the Lunar Sabbath.

00:32:50 The 10 commandments have been found in Heartland area, which one is keep the Sabbath day holy, and to get into specifics after 6 days of work. So I agree with him no evidence of this in Mesoamerica, but there is in Heartland.

00:33:10 I brought up helmets and other such items earlier.

00:33:20 BoM does not mention jousting, they do mention bows and arrows and also sorry I forget the name where you tose arrows. Wayne May has a video showing this, sorry I’m not sure what video, but I believe in a free one, or in Nephite Explorer which has been on KJZZ in SLC.

00:35:30 Animals are found in the heartland area, see Amerli Nelson’s videos . In addition Elephant pictures have been found, look into the Michigan Tablets. Here is a FB group for that, I’m not an expert on these. I do know that James E Talmage looked at them and said he didn’t believe in them. But I don’t think he was as smart as others make him out to be, for me this is just another reason not to believe in the LDS church. LDS church owned some for a while also that they kept secret.

00:36:00 just a side note, I recently saw an article talking about how more scientists are acknowledging publicly that carbon dating is not as accurate as some scientist want us to believe.

00:37:42 FYI the Spanish were not the first ones to come to North America it was more of the English, Briton ect. Just another point about we are talking about different areas. FYI LDS interpretation of Nephi dream of Columbus is interpretation, Nephite Explore has a episode how it is very likely someone else. Don’t remember his name, but he even translated the Bible into the American Indians language.

00:37:50 Some Indians in the Heartland area believe they descended from the Jerusalem.

00:38:30 Indians would have not had coinage. I don’t agree with this statement, they were far more advanced than we give them credit, all because of a smear campaign by the US gov so that they could steel their land. In fact to force the Indians to follow their demands the US gov had most of the buffaloes killed because it was big food source for the Indians. It crippled the Indians. Look into how the Indians helped with the Constitution of the United States. It’s based off of the constitution of the Tribes up by the Finger lakes. One thing that was left out thou was equal rights for women, which they had.

00:40:20 Just as a side note all animals were wild till humans domesticated them. No animal started out as domesticated.

00:42:30 In Joseph Smith’s day there was not much archaeology it was just starting. And when people of the heartland found things there was no place to take them for the most part. So being a farmer they just used the parts they could. Some was sold to Smithsonian Institute, but then were hidden because it showed that the Indians had an advanced cavillation and the gov didn’t want that coming out so that they could steal their land. There are books that show this. Wayne May has even brought one back to print that went out of print that was partly his inspiration I believe, sorry I don’t remember the name of the book.

00:43:20 Mormon think does have some good things on it. Epically discrediting the LDS church. That is where I got my quote about chocolate used to be against the word of wisdom according to the LDS church along with hot soup.

00:47:30 Climate change has been tracked in the heartland area since colonist arrived and it has changed some. And another side note for you back in the early 1900 there was a global cooling scam going on then.

00:48:30 Hebrew letters and words have been found in the Heartland area. And reformed Egyptian has been found around Jerusalem. Also look into the Hebrew Matthew, a manuscript of the Matthew in Hebrew. Also look into the Hebrewisms in the Gospels.

00:50:25 Zelph I mentioned this earlier, and Joseph was in what is now Eastern USA when he found it/him. All the examples of Joseph Smith tieing BoM to Native Americans was in the Heartland area.

00:50:50 I find it funny that the LDS church and it’s apologist say that Joseph Smith restored the gospel, but when they don’t like what he said, they always say he got it wrong. And sadly this is done a lot. There is not much the LDS church uses from Joseph Smith other than his name. If you ask me the LDS church uses Joseph Smith name for evil. JSH The angel, Nephi or Moroni, told him that his name will be had for good and evil. Brigham Young used to say all the time Joseph Smith taught me this in private. FYI Brigham Young did not like the JST because it showed Brigham Young lied about many of those statements. So this is unrelated, but I do believe that Brigham Young helped plan Joseph Smith murder.

00:51:28 DNA does disprove Mesoamerica, but it does prove Heartland model.

00:51:49 Isaiah says that Joseph Smith read the words of the BoM. Isaiah 29:22

00:52:00 Kimball was a false prophet, and I think he was the one that under oath with the supreme court I think that said that he had not seen Christ face to face as he leads the members to believe. This is a whole other subject we could talk about. LDS leaders starting with Brigham Young did not know what they were talking about a lot of the time. Brigham Young said he had the keys to talk to God, but he hardly every used them. Man I don’t know about you if I could talk with God face to face, I’d do it on a regular basis. The keys argument is a whole other discussion we could get into also.

00:53:21 Joseph Smith read the Mayan book because it was the most popular travel book. That sounds like conjecture not proof. Come on. FYI the missionary that tried to tie BoM to Mesoamerica did read this book and used it in his missionary work despite the fact that Joseph Smith told him not too. Rod Meldrum talks about this one somewhere.

00:54:30 The LDS church did push the Mayan/Mesoamerica model, and still do, but that does not mean Joseph Smith did. Look into the “Letter IIV” it talks of Heartland area. I believed in the Mayan/Mesoamerica model growing up in the church. In the last few years I came across the Heartland model, and it just makes sense and works for me. It fixes all the problems in the Mesoamerica model.

00:54:56 FYI there is not much archaeology going on in the Heartland area. I wish there was more going on.

00:57:20 He brings up Aramaic, BoM never says anything about Aramaic, it only brings up reformed Egyptian and Hebrew.

00:59:00 Like I already mentioned there are parallels with BoM and American Indians. Like the 2000 stripling warriors, barry the hatchet, to name two off the top of my head. Oh yea Indians How to say hi, is a word actually related to YHWH. Which you will find in the Heartland with the 3 letter version of it. It is talked about as the unspeakable word if I remember correctly.

00:59:28 So not to bring up another can of worms, but I am going to, the Kinder plates. A set of plates that Joseph Smith translated that were from the Heartland area and he said were from the Jaradites. Nephite Explorer has an episode on this. Here are some clips. The guy who does them is LDS so take some things with a grain of salt, but on the Heartland model I believe he is correct. To be honest I’m some surprised the LDS church has not ex’d him for promoting the heartland model as he does.

2 thoughts on “Mormon Stories – Dr Michael Coe – An Outsider’s View of Book of Mormon Archaeology

  1. Is this the pod cast on it or your review on the pod cast, its writen like a review.


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